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UNDERNEWS

Undernews is the online report of the Progressive Review, edited by Sam Smith, who covered Washington during all or part of ten of America's presidencies and who has edited alternative journals since 1964. The Review, which has been on the web since 1995, is now published from Freeport, Maine. We get over 5 million article visits a year. See prorev.com for full contents of our site

December 5, 2009

HOW I WISH THE CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS WERE RIGHT



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9 Comments:

Anonymous wellbasically said...

"dramatically increase" is the overstatement --- the earth makes a huge amount of CO2 humans make a tiny amount. We are dramatically increasing our tiny amount.

The rest is bosh. Climate changers hate the way things are, hate burning energy, hate that people drive bigger cars and have bigger houses than they do.

These people don't want to work but they don't like being outcompeted, so they want to slow everybody else down.

December 5, 2009 12:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trees Cause Pollution Dept: Friedmanite economic and psychological models posit that there are no limits, in any way, to our behaviors. Even if we ignored h. sapiens' well-documented impacts on climate, we'd still be facing ecological catastrophe on several fronts; deforestation, collapse of fish stocks, and pollution of air/water/land, for starters.

Such crises are obvious enough to a person observing an overcrowded fish tank or legions of deer destroying an island, but add in consumer fetishism and bullshit ideology and you get the above post. The denial is similar to that surrounding cannabis; against mountains of evidence that it is beneficial in many ways, one (1!) circumstantial case of overdose appears and deniers triumphantly prattle "Case closed."

I've hated Al Gore since before it was cool, and have ample contempt for the scientific priesthood, but denying global warming (spare me the plastic term 'climate change') is like denying you need clean food, water, and air. It's too bad we can't divide up the consequences of inaction by levels of willful ignorance; that's one competition the previous poster wouldn't like.

December 5, 2009 3:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So let's knock out the Hadley Centre's evidence..."

The point is, the CRU's e-mails show that they were colluding with climate scientists all over the world to fudge the data. Nice try, Hari.

December 5, 2009 6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many people here really limit their lifestyles out of concern for the earth? Be honest. And none of that "I recycle" b.s.

December 5, 2009 6:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lots of people make sacrifices large and small. In a consumer-mad plantation economy like the US, it does make a difference. Which leads me to the next...

Unmentioned here are the ongoing, regular, legalized fabrications that sustain global warming's chief foe: free market (sic) capitalism. As deniers shift into higher dudgeon, lets keep in mind the source of the criticism - ridiculously transparent mountebanks.

And a Q4U: If a new model of econ had to emerge to keep survival on the table, who would lose the most? People who are already destitute or the super rich? Those who keep communities intact or those who make careers smashing them?

Honestly, explaining this stuff is like missionary work.

December 6, 2009 5:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you would like to believe the 'deniers' (as an aside, that word is selected for the context 'holocaust denier' because it is believed that CO2 warming the planet is as obvious as a pile of millions of bodies) then what you should first do is look at the atmosphere as a screen with a million pixels on it. Separate the figure for CO2 into the well-mixed assumption so that is evenly spaced.

Also, another thing that must be understood is that the value of temperature added from CO2 is heavily dependent upon positive feedbacks in the climate system. CO2 has a logarithmic increase, as the bandwidth of upwelling IR saturates at a certain (apparently undiscovered by scientists, or undisclosed by media) concentration. It is widely assumed that absorbed upwelling radiation from the surface of the Earth enacts other molecules to absorb radiation also, despite the also widely acknowledged lack of hard evidence for this.

It is unfortunate that the study of climate science was hijacked by the oil companies and their counterparts at East Anglia University, but it is what it is. CO2 causes warming, but whether it causes enough to sound the alarm bells is certainly up in the air. And therein lies the slight of hand that perpetuates the nonsense until global temperatures cool off. But, then again, global warming can also cause Ice Ages (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5705296) so who is to really say that global warming is overblown while we all freeze to death anyway?

The above point is the perfect illustration of how little is understood about the climate system, but it will be lost on deaf ears.

December 7, 2009 2:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you would like to believe the 'deniers' (as an aside, that word is selected for the context 'holocaust denier' because it is believed that CO2 warming the planet is as obvious as a pile of millions of bodies) then what you should first do is look at the atmosphere as a screen with a million pixels on it. Separate the figure for CO2 into the well-mixed assumption so that is evenly spaced.

Also, another thing that must be understood is that the value of temperature added from CO2 is heavily dependent upon positive feedbacks in the climate system. CO2 has a logarithmic increase, as the bandwidth of upwelling IR saturates at a certain (apparently undiscovered by scientists, or undisclosed by media) concentration. It is widely assumed that absorbed upwelling radiation from the surface of the Earth enacts other molecules to absorb radiation also, despite the also widely acknowledged lack of hard evidence for this.

It is unfortunate that the study of climate science was hijacked by the oil companies and their counterparts at East Anglia University, but it is what it is. CO2 causes warming, but whether it causes enough to sound the alarm bells is certainly up in the air. And therein lies the slight of hand that perpetuates the nonsense until global temperatures cool off. But, then again, global warming can also cause Ice Ages (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5705296) so who is to really say that global warming is overblown while we all freeze to death anyway?

The above point is the perfect illustration of how little is understood about the climate system, but it will be lost on deaf ears.

December 7, 2009 2:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In an elaboration to the above comment, it is difficult to explain why CO2 is the only molecule that con make these other molecules act so, but if you or any readers are up to the task, a Nobel Prize awaits. Good hunting.

December 7, 2009 3:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Climate change / global warming / greenhouse effect is only part of the problem.

Peak Oil is also part of this, but most "environmentalists" are no longer interested in the limits to growth on a finite planet.

The issue isn't whether we will figure out how to "reduce carbon by 2050." We will stop burning fossil fuels because they will decline and run out, with the last drops reserved for billionaires and military forces.

The framing of the "climate" issue as "reducing carbon" long after the current crop of politicians are long forgotten was a brilliant public relations strategy, but it is extremely misleading.

It's also misleading to suggest we are "addicted" to oil. Fossil fuels are more concentrated than the alternatives, which is why we've used them. A solar and wind powered economy will be a much smaller one based on steady state principles, not "smart growth." Get ready to live much more locally and to grow food if you like to eat.


http://www.oilempire.us/triple-crisis.html
Peak Oil, Climate Change, Overshoot

http://www.oilempire.us/peak-fascism.html
Peak Fascism: Peak Oil, Climate Change, Civil Liberties


http://www.postcarbon.org/new-site-files/Reports/Searching_for_a_Miracle_web10nov09.pdf

SEARCHING FOR A MIRACLE
Net Energy Limits and the Fate of Industrial Society
by Richard Heinberg Foreword by Jerry Mander
A Joint Project of the International Forum on Globalization and the Post Carbon Institute. [ False Solution Series #4 ] September 2009

December 11, 2009 6:24 AM  

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